It was a bad day. A lot of bad stuff happened. And I'd love to forget it all. But I don't. Not ever. Because this is what I do. Every time, every day, every second, this: On five, we're bringing down the government.
Sunday, October 23
Seagulls
So yesterday I was down at Phillip Island to see the penguin parade (the penguins are cute but the wind was coming straight from Antarctica - literally) and before the penguins came along there were a whole lot of seagulls about. Also dead cuttlefish, but they don't feature in this story.
And the night before that I was watching the filthy neo-hippies - the Occupy $location crowd - being rounded up in Melbourne. And then I realised: The Occupy crowd are seagulls. The territoriality, the sense of indignant entitlement, that what's theirs is theirs and what's yours is theirs, and the unshakeable belief that the can make a mess anywhere they like with no repercussions - they're seagulls.
What to do with this information I'm not yet sure, but identifying the problem is a good first step.
So yesterday I was down at Phillip Island to see the penguin parade (the penguins are cute but the wind was coming straight from Antarctica - literally) and before the penguins came along there were a whole lot of seagulls about. Also dead cuttlefish, but they don't feature in this story.
And the night before that I was watching the filthy neo-hippies - the Occupy $location crowd - being rounded up in Melbourne. And then I realised: The Occupy crowd are seagulls. The territoriality, the sense of indignant entitlement, that what's theirs is theirs and what's yours is theirs, and the unshakeable belief that the can make a mess anywhere they like with no repercussions - they're seagulls.
What to do with this information I'm not yet sure, but identifying the problem is a good first step.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at
10:41 PM
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1
Was it like the Seagull Scene in Finding Nemo?
Posted by: Phil Fraering at Monday, October 24 2011 10:25 AM (rVfMa)
2
Maybe little baggies of crushed Alka-Seltzer or or Oregano freely distributed with hilarious result?
:-D
:-D
Posted by: tommy at Monday, October 24 2011 01:01 PM (x6SS2)
3
not seagulls, pixie.
storm crows.
"Historically, a story about people inside impressive buildings ignoring or even taunting people standing outside shouting at them turns out to be a story with an unhappy ending," - Lemony Snicket, a member of the Occupy Writers movement.
such a long way we have come since the beginning. do you regret the monsters we helped birth?
Monsters! Monsters from the id!
911 changed the world like a meteor strike...instantly and irrevocably....now social media is changing it, shaping it in ways that were beyond our imaginings...more like an ice age or global warming, scouring away the last scraps of Pax Americana. Do you think Herbert saw America as the Tyrant Worm? Conservatism is the defense of the status quo as risk management. Brittle and fragile, and ultimately, a failed paradigm.
such a long way we have come since the beginning. do you regret the monsters we helped birth?
Monsters! Monsters from the id!
911 changed the world like a meteor strike...instantly and irrevocably....now social media is changing it, shaping it in ways that were beyond our imaginings...more like an ice age or global warming, scouring away the last scraps of Pax Americana. Do you think Herbert saw America as the Tyrant Worm? Conservatism is the defense of the status quo as risk management. Brittle and fragile, and ultimately, a failed paradigm.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, October 24 2011 06:53 PM (O/JlR)
4
As important as it is to fix things that are broken, it is even more important not to fix things that aren't. The Occupy mob have as much sense of economic and political reality as a dead armadillo does of nuclear engineering, and the results if they were put in charge would be similarly unpleasant.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Monday, October 24 2011 09:40 PM (PiXy!)
5
Matoko_chan, does it hurt?
Posted by: Wonderduck at Tuesday, October 25 2011 02:07 PM (o45Mg)
6
Is matoko_chan in the midst of a psychotic break, or is s/he just testing a new politically-themed stream-of-unconsciousness spambot?
Posted by: Mitch H. at Tuesday, October 25 2011 10:35 PM (jwKxK)
7
Just don't get her started on "Full Metal Alchemist".
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Wednesday, October 26 2011 06:03 AM (+rSRq)
8
lol, sempai sama.
long time no see.
Al: We became absorbed in the science that made you feel like you were magic.
ahh....im watching Monster on netflix stream.....have you seen it? you were always too kawaii for me, master.
oh pixy...its the "freed" market that has failed us. EE (evolutionary economics) shows us that the "freed" market is teleologically incapable of improving the general human condition-- it only improves the condition of the overclass. the "freed" market can only deliver social justice by side-effecting-- it cannot directly recreate the jobs that vanished offshore to cheaper labor pools.
Al: We became absorbed in the science that made you feel like you were magic.
ahh....im watching Monster on netflix stream.....have you seen it? you were always too kawaii for me, master.
oh pixy...its the "freed" market that has failed us. EE (evolutionary economics) shows us that the "freed" market is teleologically incapable of improving the general human condition-- it only improves the condition of the overclass. the "freed" market can only deliver social justice by side-effecting-- it cannot directly recreate the jobs that vanished offshore to cheaper labor pools.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Thursday, October 27 2011 08:43 PM (O/JlR)
Posted by: matoko_chan at Thursday, October 27 2011 08:45 PM (O/JlR)
10
EE (evolutionary economics) shows us that the "freed" market is teleologically incapable of improving the general human condition-- it only improves the condition of the overclass.That is possibly the stupidest thing anyone's said to me all month, and it's been one hell of a month.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Friday, October 28 2011 12:22 AM (PiXy!)
11
Pixy, I think it means "once I torture my definitions sufficiently, they'll confess whatever conclusion my heart desires".
Posted by: Mitch H. at Friday, October 28 2011 03:18 AM (jwKxK)
12
I'm still trying to figure out what "teleologically incapable" means.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Friday, October 28 2011 03:58 AM (+rSRq)
13
Pure balloon juice. Literally, since the entire sentence was copied from a comment on that blog. makoto_chan is apparently the bastard child of Markov Chaney and Googlebot.
-j
-j
Posted by: J Greely at Friday, October 28 2011 06:31 AM (fpXGN)
14
@ Steven: I think she's saying that because free markets aren't aimed directly at doing charity they can't improve things outside their narrow focus (profit for the stakeholders). This is of course a very non-holistic view and at odds with empirical evidence. I also think that she's got teleology backwards to have used that sentence. OTOH I'm kind of grasping here.
Sometimes she reminds me of Kimiko Ross from Dresden Codak, that is, someone who is completely enamored of the godlike beings humanity might spawn and utterly contemptuous of all that humanity is...sometimes she reminds me of Mr Morden from Babylon 5...sometimes she reminds me of a random phrase generator....but most of the time she reminds me that it is important to interact with actual human beings outside of academia, cons and internet forums like Aqoul.
...and not spend so much time on the internet wasting time commenting on....
...
...
Oh dear....
Sometimes she reminds me of Kimiko Ross from Dresden Codak, that is, someone who is completely enamored of the godlike beings humanity might spawn and utterly contemptuous of all that humanity is...sometimes she reminds me of Mr Morden from Babylon 5...sometimes she reminds me of a random phrase generator....but most of the time she reminds me that it is important to interact with actual human beings outside of academia, cons and internet forums like Aqoul.
...and not spend so much time on the internet wasting time commenting on....
...
...
Oh dear....
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at Friday, October 28 2011 12:15 PM (EJaOX)
15
@#9: So, yes, thinking like that does hurt you. So why do you do it, when nobody agrees with you and indeed have shown that your opinions are full of herring chunks? Do you really think you'll convince anybody here that you're correct? Or is it that you think quoting a meh anime at us will impress other readers?
Posted by: Wonderduck at Friday, October 28 2011 02:06 PM (o45Mg)
16
lol
it comes from HERE
and this book.
i dont suppose you have heard of complexity economics either?
n'importante.
im just here to muse about what has happened. i have changed a lot...you guys dont seem to have changed at all. you are frozen in amber like jurassic flies.
what do you think history will make of OIF and OEF? did we get anything out of 14.3 trillion dollars of paranoia reflex except for the undying enmity of dar ul islam? i think we were wrong.....
n'importante.
im just here to muse about what has happened. i have changed a lot...you guys dont seem to have changed at all. you are frozen in amber like jurassic flies.
what do you think history will make of OIF and OEF? did we get anything out of 14.3 trillion dollars of paranoia reflex except for the undying enmity of dar ul islam? i think we were wrong.....
Posted by: matoko_chan at Friday, October 28 2011 08:11 PM (O/JlR)
17
because free markets aren't aimed directly at doing charity they can't improve things outside their narrow focus (profit for the stakeholders)
... ... i guess that is accurate. supply side economics is simple side effecting, lifting the boat. So in an economic downturn "freed" markets simply dont create jobs....here. Globally, the jobs moved to cheaper labor sources. That is how market economics works.
but there is a bigger global paradigm in operation here. vox populi, vox anon...
that is what i mean when i say the owies are not seagulls-- they are storm crows. harbingers of change.
... ... i guess that is accurate. supply side economics is simple side effecting, lifting the boat. So in an economic downturn "freed" markets simply dont create jobs....here. Globally, the jobs moved to cheaper labor sources. That is how market economics works.
but there is a bigger global paradigm in operation here. vox populi, vox anon...
that is what i mean when i say the owies are not seagulls-- they are storm crows. harbingers of change.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Friday, October 28 2011 08:21 PM (O/JlR)
18
No, matoko. They are seagulls, harbingers of stealing your chips.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Friday, October 28 2011 10:21 PM (PiXy!)
19
i dont suppose you have heard of complexity economics either?
Since both are obviously - from their very coinage - attempts to obscure via storms of in-group jargonage some exploded obsolete re-tread variant on Marxism, why should we give a good goddamn?
In short, I rather think you've confused teleology with tautology.
Since both are obviously - from their very coinage - attempts to obscure via storms of in-group jargonage some exploded obsolete re-tread variant on Marxism, why should we give a good goddamn?
In short, I rather think you've confused teleology with tautology.
Posted by: Mitch H. at Saturday, October 29 2011 03:04 AM (jwKxK)
Posted by: J Greely at Saturday, October 29 2011 06:30 AM (2XtN5)
21
They are seagulls, harbingers of stealing your chips.
lawlz pixie....not my chips....they just want justice....their fair share of the Big Bag o' Chips that is Amerikkka...or Greece...or Tunisia.
And pixie will tell the rest of you...evolution is my greatest good...well.....that and games theory.
lawlz pixie....not my chips....they just want justice....their fair share of the Big Bag o' Chips that is Amerikkka...or Greece...or Tunisia.
And pixie will tell the rest of you...evolution is my greatest good...well.....that and games theory.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Saturday, October 29 2011 06:52 AM (O/JlR)
22
By the way, Brickmuppet got spammed again.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Saturday, October 29 2011 07:35 AM (+rSRq)
23
<a href="http://www.weather.com/outlook/weather-news/news/articles/weekend-storm-wet-snow_2011-10-26">This</a> must be the storm makoto_chan is referring to...
-j
-j
Posted by: J Greely at Saturday, October 29 2011 07:56 AM (2XtN5)
24
They don't want justice, matoko. They've got justice. They've got their fair share. What they want is a handout.
If they wanted jobs they could have studied science or engineering or medicine or accounting or any of those fields that are practical, useful, and difficult to learn, rather than English Lit., which is none of those.
I often work 70 or 80 hours a week. I'm more than happy to hand over half my workload to anyone else who has 15 years of experience with large distributed database systems. Except that they are probably all working similar hours, because they know something of value.
If they wanted jobs they could have studied science or engineering or medicine or accounting or any of those fields that are practical, useful, and difficult to learn, rather than English Lit., which is none of those.
I often work 70 or 80 hours a week. I'm more than happy to hand over half my workload to anyone else who has 15 years of experience with large distributed database systems. Except that they are probably all working similar hours, because they know something of value.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Saturday, October 29 2011 10:24 AM (PiXy!)
25
And I've sprayed some spam-b-gon about the place.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Saturday, October 29 2011 10:25 AM (PiXy!)
26
rather than English Lit., which is none of those.
oh, you mean Dead White Male Phailosophy? you get that college mortgages are the new sub-primes right? Again, the "freed" market is WAI. (working as intended) farming the peasants for PROFIT. http://www.nysut.org/nysutunited_17153.htm
oh, you mean Dead White Male Phailosophy? you get that college mortgages are the new sub-primes right? Again, the "freed" market is WAI. (working as intended) farming the peasants for PROFIT. http://www.nysut.org/nysutunited_17153.htm
Posted by: matoko_chan at Saturday, October 29 2011 11:00 PM (O/JlR)
27
Pixy, Brickmuppet got spammed again. Looks like the same guy.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Sunday, October 30 2011 12:45 AM (+rSRq)
28
i gotz ONE MORE THING to say on the seagulls topic, pixie.
this.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/college2.jpg
Posted by: matoko_chan at Sunday, October 30 2011 01:38 AM (O/JlR)
29
So?
Yes, college education in the US is overpriced. That just reinforces my point: If you pour huge amounts of your (or your parents') money down the drain on a degree of no practical value, you don't get to complain when society doesn't reward your lack of marketable skills with a high-paying job.
They don't want justice. They got justice. That's what they're complaining about. What they want is a handout.
Yes, college education in the US is overpriced. That just reinforces my point: If you pour huge amounts of your (or your parents') money down the drain on a degree of no practical value, you don't get to complain when society doesn't reward your lack of marketable skills with a high-paying job.
They don't want justice. They got justice. That's what they're complaining about. What they want is a handout.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Sunday, October 30 2011 10:16 AM (PiXy!)
30
darn...my last comment got marked as spam i guess.
but college loan forgivement is only one of their demands.
they want Glass-Steagal back, and all the troops withdrawn from Iraq and A-stan, and they want the citizens united decision struck down, and they want immigration reform and an amnesty program for illegals.
you are ignoring the base problem here. America has spent 14.3 taxpayers dollars on paranoia reflex over the last decade. where did that money come from? Not from the bankstahs. they got bailed and they are now back to making the big bucks again.
and the base problem isnt just America and Australia...its happening in greece and spain and iceland. And it started in Tunisia. It started because of social media....because now the underclass can organize.
you are ignoring the base problem here. America has spent 14.3 taxpayers dollars on paranoia reflex over the last decade. where did that money come from? Not from the bankstahs. they got bailed and they are now back to making the big bucks again.
and the base problem isnt just America and Australia...its happening in greece and spain and iceland. And it started in Tunisia. It started because of social media....because now the underclass can organize.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Sunday, October 30 2011 08:48 PM (O/JlR)
31
and holy smokes pixie....i never thought i'd hear you of all people yelling get off my lawn....i thought you were <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1nbvplgElw"> forever young.</a>
Posted by: matoko_chan at Sunday, October 30 2011 08:53 PM (O/JlR)
Posted by: matoko_chan at Sunday, October 30 2011 08:55 PM (O/JlR)
33
Not just smelly losers, whiny smelly losers.
On the other hand, I take responsibility for my mistakes. And bathe regularly.
darn...my last comment got marked as spam i guess. but college loan forgivement is only one of their demands.Why should their debt be forgiven? And where is the money supposed to come from?
they want Glass-Steagal back, and all the troops withdrawn from Iraq and A-stan, and they want the citizens united decision struck down, and they want immigration reform and an amnesty program for illegals.Says who?
you are ignoring the base problem here. America has spent 14.3 [trillion] taxpayers dollars on paranoia reflex over the last decade.Well, no.
where did that money come from?At a guess... Taxpayers.
and the base problem isnt just America and Australia...It's not in Australia at all. Oh, sure, we had some smelly losers clogging up the streets of Melbourne for a few days. But we didn't have the same idiotic progressive legislation distorting the housing market here, so we haven't experienced anything like the housing price and related financial collapse that's been seen in the US.
its happening in greece and spain and iceland.The PIIGS have been trending bankrupt for decades because no-one does any work. Iceland is a different case; their banks got over-ambitious and over-extended and dug their own graves.
And it started in Tunisia. It started because of social media....because now the underclass can organize.Let me get that straight: The underclass are organising on Facebook to get their college loans forgiven?
Not just smelly losers, whiny smelly losers.
and holy smokes pixie....i never thought i'd hear you of all people yelling get off my lawn....i thought you were forever young.I am. And an incurable optimist. I'm working hard on building a better future. I speak out against real injustice and bad policy.
On the other hand, I take responsibility for my mistakes. And bathe regularly.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Monday, October 31 2011 12:17 AM (PiXy!)
34
I think we're being trolled.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Monday, October 31 2011 01:31 AM (+rSRq)
35
what did we get for our 14.3 trillion dollars pixie?
are we SAFER?
Iraq is planting a boot in americas fat white judeoxian ass in december.
you guys lied to me.
you said we were doing the right thing.
especially you, sempai sama.
praps that is what OWS is really about. lying.
praps that is what OWS is really about. lying.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, October 31 2011 03:14 AM (O/JlR)
36
"I think we're being trolled."
oh you are SDB...and you are the biggest fattest oldest billy goats gruff ever. but the troll under the bridge is teh interwebz and social media. and that is what is going to eat you alive.
oh you are SDB...and you are the biggest fattest oldest billy goats gruff ever. but the troll under the bridge is teh interwebz and social media. and that is what is going to eat you alive.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, October 31 2011 03:18 AM (O/JlR)
37
The education bubble is not some conspiracy by big biddness to bankrupt their potential customers, it's a perfectly predictable set of unintended consequences.
The liberal arts degrees were oversold by the same credentialed elites who now swoon over these violent antisemitic, entitled dingalings in Zucotti Park. The vast sums spent on higher education were allotted by bureaucrats...who tend to be liberal arts majors...who put the money not so much into into engineering, and other useful endeavors but into courses ending in the word "studies". They then proceeded to vastly expand those departments, which facillitated hiring those with said degrees...which gave the impression that such degrees were a good investment....while expanding the colleges of woolly thinking...thereby increasing the number of people who had those degrees...who could only get jobs in academia because such degrees are, on their own, maladaptations for the real world. The Colleges of BS used the monies spent on education to expand, thereby hiring more people, thereby inflating the BS degree bubble in accordance with tulip economics and Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy. This had the added effect of raising tuition in order to pay for vastly increased staff who get paid to...ummm....well they get paid. The vastly increased tuition ( >300% at my college since I've been going there) makes it difficult to get a degree without going part time and working...or getting a student loan, which is a bad idea, but, as I found out over a decade ago, can be an important learning experience.
The underclass does not use electronic gadgets whose name begins in the letter"i". Those are used by people who can afford the most fashionable kit ...or in the case of the '#occupy' people, the spoiled children of those who can afford them.
If you want to see a real underclass go look at pictures from the the soccer stadium in Kabul from before "Amerikkka", Australia, France, the UK, Canada (and all the other nations that were appalled at these feral butchers) went in there.
I assume you are fine with this, because this was the state between the time we left in the early '90s and we returned so we have empirical evidence as well as the assurance of the Taliban that this is what will happen if you get your way.
Likewise we have empirical evidence that free market economics, for all its faults, raised the world out of serfdom, where the 99% really WAS in poverty and actual, not virtual slaves to masters. By contrast, Leftism has given us about 130 million broken eggs since 1917 alone....and not a single omlet to show for it.
The purpose of a system is what it does.
Matoko, what is your purpose?
Again, the "freed" market is WAI. (working as intended)farming the peasants for PROFIT.
The education bubble is not some conspiracy by big biddness to bankrupt their potential customers, it's a perfectly predictable set of unintended consequences.
The liberal arts degrees were oversold by the same credentialed elites who now swoon over these violent antisemitic, entitled dingalings in Zucotti Park. The vast sums spent on higher education were allotted by bureaucrats...who tend to be liberal arts majors...who put the money not so much into into engineering, and other useful endeavors but into courses ending in the word "studies". They then proceeded to vastly expand those departments, which facillitated hiring those with said degrees...which gave the impression that such degrees were a good investment....while expanding the colleges of woolly thinking...thereby increasing the number of people who had those degrees...who could only get jobs in academia because such degrees are, on their own, maladaptations for the real world. The Colleges of BS used the monies spent on education to expand, thereby hiring more people, thereby inflating the BS degree bubble in accordance with tulip economics and Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy. This had the added effect of raising tuition in order to pay for vastly increased staff who get paid to...ummm....well they get paid. The vastly increased tuition ( >300% at my college since I've been going there) makes it difficult to get a degree without going part time and working...or getting a student loan, which is a bad idea, but, as I found out over a decade ago, can be an important learning experience.
The underclass does not use electronic gadgets whose name begins in the letter"i". Those are used by people who can afford the most fashionable kit ...or in the case of the '#occupy' people, the spoiled children of those who can afford them.
If you want to see a real underclass go look at pictures from the the soccer stadium in Kabul from before "Amerikkka", Australia, France, the UK, Canada (and all the other nations that were appalled at these feral butchers) went in there.
I assume you are fine with this, because this was the state between the time we left in the early '90s and we returned so we have empirical evidence as well as the assurance of the Taliban that this is what will happen if you get your way.
Likewise we have empirical evidence that free market economics, for all its faults, raised the world out of serfdom, where the 99% really WAS in poverty and actual, not virtual slaves to masters. By contrast, Leftism has given us about 130 million broken eggs since 1917 alone....and not a single omlet to show for it.
The purpose of a system is what it does.
Matoko, what is your purpose?
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at Monday, October 31 2011 04:59 AM (EJaOX)
38
praps that is what OWS is really about.
lying.
I think you're right, but not in the way you mean.
I think you're right, but not in the way you mean.
Posted by: Wonderduck at Monday, October 31 2011 10:19 AM (o45Mg)
39
If you think that there is the right thing to do in any but the simplest situations, that's probably why your thinking is so muddled on so many subjects. We can only evaluate plans of action based on goals and methods, and in retrospect, by results. There are no absolutes handed down from on high.
what did we get for our 14.3 trillion dollars pixie?50 million people freed from actual oppression. The kind where you get killed for speaking out.
Iraq is planting a boot in americas fat white judeoxian ass in december.They are free also to be ungrateful.
you guys lied to me.Nope.
you said we were doing the right thing.The right thing? There is no the right thing. What we did for Afghanistan and Iraq was a right thing.
If you think that there is the right thing to do in any but the simplest situations, that's probably why your thinking is so muddled on so many subjects. We can only evaluate plans of action based on goals and methods, and in retrospect, by results. There are no absolutes handed down from on high.
praps that is what OWS is really about. lying.No, they're pretty much just about whining.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Monday, October 31 2011 10:57 AM (PiXy!)
40
Brickmuppet, what was the mission? Building girls schools while droning their dads and brothers?
w/e it was it FAILED. epically.
10 years, trillions of taxpayer dollars, 7k DEAD american soljahs later Iraq is still 97% muslim and A-stan is still 99% muslim.
Iraq is planting a boot in Amerikkkas fat white judeoxian ass in December and sewing up the New Shiia Cresent with Iran and Syria.
again. America spent 14.3 trillion dollars on "security" in the 10 years since 911. What did we get for that? The Taliban are deobandi sufi. Do you know what that means? It means 200 years ago they were building madrassas' to train students to fight the British Raj. The talibs just bombed the US embassy in Kabul. While we still have 90k troops there. As soon as Obama folds our tents they are gunna roll into Kabul and dip Karzais head in tar and put it on a pike (game of thrones reference), and then form up a regional alliance with the paks. The bankstahs got bailed, and now they are back to fat paycheck city. The owies want an accounting, dig?
Dr. Jerry Pournelle said once that unregulated capitalism leads to human flesh for sale in the marketplace and other horrors. Horrors like the BP oil spill, like Fukushima-Daichi, like the 1%. You were my mentors. You lied.
again. America spent 14.3 trillion dollars on "security" in the 10 years since 911. What did we get for that? The Taliban are deobandi sufi. Do you know what that means? It means 200 years ago they were building madrassas' to train students to fight the British Raj. The talibs just bombed the US embassy in Kabul. While we still have 90k troops there. As soon as Obama folds our tents they are gunna roll into Kabul and dip Karzais head in tar and put it on a pike (game of thrones reference), and then form up a regional alliance with the paks. The bankstahs got bailed, and now they are back to fat paycheck city. The owies want an accounting, dig?
Dr. Jerry Pournelle said once that unregulated capitalism leads to human flesh for sale in the marketplace and other horrors. Horrors like the BP oil spill, like Fukushima-Daichi, like the 1%. You were my mentors. You lied.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, October 31 2011 11:07 AM (O/JlR)
41
"What we did for Afghanistan and Iraq was a right thing."
no pixie. a million muslim Iraqi civilians died. there are 4.5 million muslim orphans in Iraq. How many of them will grow up to be islamic terrorists? .... .... .... i felt...a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced
we tried to force our culture on those people. we failed utterly....
no pixie. a million muslim Iraqi civilians died. there are 4.5 million muslim orphans in Iraq. How many of them will grow up to be islamic terrorists? .... .... .... i felt...a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced
we tried to force our culture on those people. we failed utterly....
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, October 31 2011 11:17 AM (O/JlR)
42
do you guys want to know what REALLY happened in Iraq and A-stan?
the real reason for the Epic Fail of the Manifest Destiny of Freemarket Judeoxian Democracy in MENA?
because freedom of speech is incompatible with the THE QURAN. the Quran forbids proselytization of the poor and ignorant-- freedom of speech legalizes the proselytization of everyone. isnt that hilarious? America spent trillions of dollars trying to do something that CANNOT BE DONE. hahaha
because freedom of speech is incompatible with the THE QURAN. the Quran forbids proselytization of the poor and ignorant-- freedom of speech legalizes the proselytization of everyone. isnt that hilarious? America spent trillions of dollars trying to do something that CANNOT BE DONE. hahaha
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, October 31 2011 11:35 AM (O/JlR)
43
That's the difference between a right thing and the right thing. We did a right thing. That doesn't mean that everything will work out nicely.
Brickmuppet, what was the mission? Building girls schools while droning their dads and brothers? w/e it was it FAILED. epically. 10 years, trillions of taxpayer dollars, 7k DEAD american soljahs later Iraq is still 97% muslim and A-stan is still 99% muslim.Well, I can tell you what the mission wasn't: It wasn't to convert the populations of two entire nations to another (or no) religion.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle said once that unregulated capitalism leads to human flesh for sale in the marketplace and other horrors.Cite?
Horrors like the BP oil spillNot remotely the same thing.
like Fukushima-DaichiWhich was not a horror at all; it survived a far worse situation far better than Chernobyl.
like the 1%.The "1%" are a fairy tale for losers.
You were my mentors. You lied.We didn't lie; you didn't listen.
a million muslim Iraqi civilians died.Evidence for that number? In any case, we didn't kill them. We were attempting to remove the people who were killing them.
That's the difference between a right thing and the right thing. We did a right thing. That doesn't mean that everything will work out nicely.
we tried to force our culture on those people.No we didn't. We didn't do that at all. Quite possibly things would have worked out better if we had. And possibly not.
because freedom of speech is incompatible with the THE QURAN.Even if we accept that, so what? People ignore undesirable bits of their personal holy texts all the time. No-one follows the Bible or the Koran in their entirety. You can't; neither work is internally consistent.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Monday, October 31 2011 11:52 AM (PiXy!)
44
The CIA World Factbook says there are currently 11.5 million kids in Iraq up to the age of 15. So you're trying to tell us that 40% of them are orphans?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Monday, October 31 2011 04:29 PM (+rSRq)
45
yes SDB. 4.5 million kids. that is approx 25%, not 40%.
...
... ...
"No-one follows the Bible or the Koran in their entirety." Shariah law, or islamic jurisprudence, is quranic exegesis. The only law in dar ul Islam is shariah law. Its in the Iraqi constitution. "We were attempting to remove the people who were killing them." they are just as dead. WTF were we doing there then? We werent trying to convert them to xianity-- we were trying to install/impose/implant/standup westernstyle democracy with freedom of speech and freedom of religion. it cant be done. ... ... ... Because when muslims are DEMOCRATICALLY empowered to vote, they vote for MOAR Islam, not less, and NEVER for westernstyle democracy with freedom of speech.
... ...
"No-one follows the Bible or the Koran in their entirety." Shariah law, or islamic jurisprudence, is quranic exegesis. The only law in dar ul Islam is shariah law. Its in the Iraqi constitution. "We were attempting to remove the people who were killing them." they are just as dead. WTF were we doing there then? We werent trying to convert them to xianity-- we were trying to install/impose/implant/standup westernstyle democracy with freedom of speech and freedom of religion. it cant be done. ... ... ... Because when muslims are DEMOCRATICALLY empowered to vote, they vote for MOAR Islam, not less, and NEVER for westernstyle democracy with freedom of speech.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, October 31 2011 05:04 PM (O/JlR)
46
come on pixie.
you are a rational sapient.
WTF were our "armed social workers" DOING there?
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, October 31 2011 05:06 PM (O/JlR)
47
So you're saying that there are 18 million kids in Iraq, not 11.5 million? Out of a total population of 30.4 million people?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Monday, October 31 2011 05:19 PM (+rSRq)
48
"We were attempting to remove the people whowerekilling them."they are just as dead.Yes, but we didn't kill them. We killed the people who were killing them. This is a right thing to do.
come on pixie. you are a rational sapient.Which apparently makes one of us.
WTF were our "armed social workers" DOING there?Removing brutal dictators, killing terrorists, helping rebuild infrastructure, all the stuff that we (as the good guys) traditionally do.
Because when muslims are DEMOCRATICALLY empowered to vote, they vote for MOAR Islam, not less, and NEVER for westernstyle democracy with freedom of speech.Historically inaccurate. Also bigoted.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Monday, October 31 2011 05:42 PM (PiXy!)
49
empirical data.
http://boingboing.net/2011/10/28/tahrir.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29
http://boingboing.net/2011/10/28/tahrir.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29
Posted by: matoko_chan at Tuesday, November 01 2011 01:06 AM (O/JlR)
50
your comment formatting is teh sukksor pixie.
http://tinyurl.com/42dt4te
"Historically inaccurate. Also bigoted."
But empirically true. Iraq has shariah law in their constitution, and A-stan will too as soon as we leave.
How am i bigoted? Islam is evolutionarily superior to christianity and judaism. In evolutionary theory of games terminology. Islam is EGT l33t. Want proof? in 20 years one out of four humans will be muslim. How many will be anglosaxon xians, do you think?
http://tinyurl.com/42dt4te
"Historically inaccurate. Also bigoted."
But empirically true. Iraq has shariah law in their constitution, and A-stan will too as soon as we leave.
How am i bigoted? Islam is evolutionarily superior to christianity and judaism. In evolutionary theory of games terminology. Islam is EGT l33t. Want proof? in 20 years one out of four humans will be muslim. How many will be anglosaxon xians, do you think?
Posted by: matoko_chan at Tuesday, November 01 2011 01:12 AM (O/JlR)
51
Removing brutal dictators, killing terrorists, helping rebuild infrastructure, all the stuff that we (as the good guys) traditionally do.
lol-- nationbuilding? then we FAILED.
we arent the good guys....we arent even the better guys. we are the stupid guys. we are American trash.
lol-- nationbuilding? then we FAILED.
we arent the good guys....we arent even the better guys. we are the stupid guys. we are American trash.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Tuesday, November 01 2011 01:14 AM (O/JlR)
52
The ones blowing up the buses full of preschoolers, those are the bad guys.
The ones risking their lives to stop the bad guys, those are the good guys.
Doesn't mean we're perfect. Doesn't mean that what we're trying to do will work. Doesn't even mean that the end result will be better than before. Certainly doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to learn from events and do better next time.
Doesn't mean that we did the wrong thing either.
You're engaging in the all-or-nothing fallacy, a false dilemma. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it is bad. That's a childish and simplistic way of viewing the world - and it's what the Occupy crowd are doing.
empirical data.Everything is empirical data, matoko.
your comment formatting is teh sukksor pixie.The cut and paste function is very annoying with the new version of the editor, if that's what you mean.
Islam is evolutionarily superior to christianity and judaism.It's arguably a more virulent meme, but it's also one that does more damage to the host. That makes it evolutionarily inferior: the evolutionary trend of parasites and diseases is to become more virulent but less harmful over time.
nationbuilding? then we FAILED.We shall see. As I've pointed out, there is no the right thing. We did a right thing, when doing nothing was not viable.
we arent the good guys....we arent even the better guys.we are the stupid guys.we are American trash.Nonsense.
The ones blowing up the buses full of preschoolers, those are the bad guys.
The ones risking their lives to stop the bad guys, those are the good guys.
Doesn't mean we're perfect. Doesn't mean that what we're trying to do will work. Doesn't even mean that the end result will be better than before. Certainly doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to learn from events and do better next time.
Doesn't mean that we did the wrong thing either.
You're engaging in the all-or-nothing fallacy, a false dilemma. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it is bad. That's a childish and simplistic way of viewing the world - and it's what the Occupy crowd are doing.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Tuesday, November 01 2011 03:40 AM (PiXy!)
53
Why are you people conversing with this... thing?
Posted by: Avatar_exADV at Tuesday, November 01 2011 11:26 AM (pWQz4)
54
"That makes it evolutionarily inferior"
false. its all about the reps, pixie. Islam is not somemetically virulent that it kills the vector before reproduction. the selfish genes and the selfish memes code for three things only; survival, reproduction, and death. In 20 years one out of four humans on the planet will be muslim. Relative superiority in reproductive fitness wins. A tribe without reps cannot survive.
false. its all about the reps, pixie. Islam is not somemetically virulent that it kills the vector before reproduction. the selfish genes and the selfish memes code for three things only; survival, reproduction, and death. In 20 years one out of four humans on the planet will be muslim. Relative superiority in reproductive fitness wins. A tribe without reps cannot survive.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Tuesday, November 01 2011 07:43 PM (O/JlR)
55
even if they have the biggest guns.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Tuesday, November 01 2011 07:45 PM (O/JlR)
56
Totalitarian memes like Islam make the society as a whole less fit. Producing lots of babies doesn't help you if your entire nation collapses in a screaming heap.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Tuesday, November 01 2011 09:31 PM (PiXy!)
57
I second Avatar's question.
Posted by: RickC at Wednesday, November 02 2011 12:36 AM (45o09)
58
Personally, I laughed at the inept troll a few times and then stopped paying attention. Classic Usenet nutcases like MES were at least quotable; m_c assembles "facts" and "quotes" like a second-rate spambot trying to evade a filter.
-j
-j
Posted by: J Greely at Wednesday, November 02 2011 02:23 AM (2XtN5)
59
Producing lots of babies, and then abusing them, is a sure way to win lots of handouts from Europe and America. You know how population of Ethiopia grew almost 2x (from 38 million to 76+) during the period of horrible hunger that provided lots and lots of ghastly pictures of semi-dead children? What do you think they ate all that time while multiplying like that?
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at Thursday, November 03 2011 07:47 AM (G2mwb)
60
"Doesn't mean that we did the wrong thing either."
Empirically we did the wrong thing pixie. 10 years, trillions of taxpayer dollahs, thousands of dead american soljahs, and hundreds of thousands of dead muslims later, Iraq is still 97% muslim and A-stan is still 99% muslim. We havent made a dent. And Iraq just kicked America's fat white judeoxian ass out and even with 90,000 troops still in theater the talibs are bombing the American embassy in Kabul and whacking Karzais brother.
those people dont want missionary democray...and they are not going to take it.
Empirically we did the wrong thing pixie. 10 years, trillions of taxpayer dollahs, thousands of dead american soljahs, and hundreds of thousands of dead muslims later, Iraq is still 97% muslim and A-stan is still 99% muslim. We havent made a dent. And Iraq just kicked America's fat white judeoxian ass out and even with 90,000 troops still in theater the talibs are bombing the American embassy in Kabul and whacking Karzais brother.
those people dont want missionary democray...and they are not going to take it.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Saturday, November 05 2011 06:50 PM (9dK/x)
61
And its SCIENCE pixie.
Islam is an uninvadable strategy.
--Evolution and the Theory of Games, John Maynard-Smith
Posted by: matoko_chan at Saturday, November 05 2011 06:52 PM (9dK/x)
62
Empirically we did the wrong thing pixie.10 years, trillions of taxpayer dollahs, thousands of dead american soljahs, and hundreds of thousands of dead muslims later, Iraq is still 97% muslim and A-stan is still 99% muslim.matoko, not only does that not demonstrate that we did the wrong thing, it does not relate to the purpose of the missions at all. And learn to spell.
And its SCIENCE pixie. Islam is an uninvadable strategy. --Evolution and the Theory of Games, John Maynard-SmithYou understand nothing. Game theory isn't science, it's mathematics. Your assertion only holds if the behaviour of everyone in the entire country is identical, and such a suggestion is as bigoted as it is absurd. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Saturday, November 05 2011 08:38 PM (PiXy!)
63
Iraq is still 97% muslim and A-stan is still 99% muslim. We havent made a dent.
Gee, I didn't realize our mission in Iraq or Afghanistan was to get rid of all the muslims...
Gee, I didn't realize our mission in Iraq or Afghanistan was to get rid of all the muslims...
Posted by: Wonderduck at Sunday, November 06 2011 01:31 PM (o45Mg)
64
what was the mission, wonderduck? lol
why did we stay there for 10 years and 4.4 trillion dollars?
Democracy promotion. But missionary democracy with freedom of speech is impossible to implant/standup/implant/impose in majority muslim nations.
Pixie, i helped at occupydenver over the weekend at the cooktent. Everyone i asked had a single goal-- to overturn the the citizens united decision on corporate personhood.
Take a look at my favorite book of all time, pixie. Evolution and the Theory of Games, John Maynard-Smith. Islam is an uninvadable CSS (culturally stable strategy strategy).
Pixie, i helped at occupydenver over the weekend at the cooktent. Everyone i asked had a single goal-- to overturn the the citizens united decision on corporate personhood.
Take a look at my favorite book of all time, pixie. Evolution and the Theory of Games, John Maynard-Smith. Islam is an uninvadable CSS (culturally stable strategy strategy).
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, November 07 2011 10:51 PM (9dK/x)
65
ask SDB about games theory, pixie.
Reciprocal altruism, prisoners dilemma, tit for tat, theory of moves...
i bet he still remembers under all that kawaii.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, November 07 2011 10:53 PM (9dK/x)
66
you know what is anti-democratic pixie?
COIN.
counterinsurgency means going against the native population.
that is why it cant ever work.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, November 07 2011 10:57 PM (9dK/x)
67
not only does that not demonstrate that we did the wrong thing
sure it does. we got no payoff. all we got out of OIF and OEF is ~5 million muslim orphans and the undying enmity of dar ul islam.
it does not relate to the purpose of the missions at all. your turn pixie. what WAS the "mission"?
sure it does. we got no payoff. all we got out of OIF and OEF is ~5 million muslim orphans and the undying enmity of dar ul islam.
it does not relate to the purpose of the missions at all. your turn pixie. what WAS the "mission"?
Posted by: matoko_chan at Monday, November 07 2011 11:01 PM (9dK/x)
68
But missionary democracy with freedom of speech is impossible to implant/standup/implant/impose in majority muslim nations.Already proven false, repeatedly. Those who do not study history will be forced to repeat seventh grade.
Everyone i asked had a single goal-- to overturn the the citizens united decision on corporate personhood.Okay, first, I don't believe you for a moment. Second, Citizens United was decided on straightforward First Amendment grounds. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that the Occupy losers don't care about anyone's constitutional rights but their own, but I do, and fortunately the Supreme Court does too. McCain-Feingold was always overbroad and ill-considered, and it both deserved and needed to be gutted that way.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Tuesday, November 08 2011 01:28 AM (PiXy!)
69
Already proven false, repeatedly.
sry, semsei, but you are WRONG. Peaceful Democracy Theory and Pax Americana are FAIL. The Iraqis have a democracy and they hate our guts.
I don't believe you for a moment
i took a live sample. What the occupydenver protestors SAY THEY WANT is for corporations to lose their claim to personhood.
sry, semsei, but you are WRONG. Peaceful Democracy Theory and Pax Americana are FAIL. The Iraqis have a democracy and they hate our guts.
I don't believe you for a moment
i took a live sample. What the occupydenver protestors SAY THEY WANT is for corporations to lose their claim to personhood.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Tuesday, November 08 2011 02:14 AM (9dK/x)
70
but I do
LOL that is conservatives for you! personhood for both corporations and diploid oocytes.
LOL that is conservatives for you! personhood for both corporations and diploid oocytes.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Tuesday, November 08 2011 04:38 AM (9dK/x)
71
sry, semsei, but you are WRONG. Peaceful Democracy Theory and Pax Americana are FAIL.The Iraqis have a democracy and they hate our guts.Not responsive to the point. Which is your problem all along; you have arrived at your conclusion, and having no evidence to support you, rely instead on irrelevancies.
i took a live sample. What the occupydenver protestors SAY THEY WANT is for corporations to lose their claim to personhood.First, I don't believe you. Second, Citizens United was a First Amendment case, pure and simple. Do these people who claim they want to abolish first amendment rights for non-profit corporations (which is what the case was about) realise that exactly the same rules applied to trade unions, before the Supreme Court struck down that section of the bill?
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Tuesday, November 08 2011 06:47 AM (PiXy!)
72
And, because this is something you don't seem to understand: Muslims are people.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Tuesday, November 08 2011 07:05 AM (PiXy!)
73
Anyway, back to Citizens United: You say the Occupy protesters want this decision overturned. How, by whom, to what end, and on what basis?
First, this is a Supreme Court First Amendment decision that came down on the side of the First Amendment. Since the entire protection of the Occupy movement is derived from the First Amendment, you'd hope they'd (a) understand it and (b) support it. Instead, you assert, they want to abolish it for those who might say things they disagree with.
That's not how it works. Constitutionally protected rights are protected for all.
Second, this is a Supreme Court First Amendment decision that came down on the side of the First Amendment. Unless you can get the Supreme Court to review the case and reverse its own decision, the only thing that can reverse it is a new amendment or Constitutional Convention.
Third, this is a Supreme Court First Amendment decision that came down on the side of the First Amendment. Free speech is the very bedrock of civil society, and any attempt to curtail it must be viewed with the greatest suspicion. We have made certain very specific provisions: False advertising, for example, and incitement to violence (which must be direct and explicit). What is the value in abridging the freedom of speech of groups of people in this way? And how does it weigh against the harm?
Fourth, this is a Supreme Court First Amendment decision that came down on the side of the First Amendment. What are the legal grounds for reversing such a decision? The First Amendment is very clear:
The same amendment that guarantees the right of the Occupy protesters protects the speech of other non-profit groups like Citizens United. And this is what they want to dismantle?
What possible legal grounds could they have for such an act? And have they really considered the consequences?
Or are they seagulls - all entitlement and no responsibility?
First, this is a Supreme Court First Amendment decision that came down on the side of the First Amendment. Since the entire protection of the Occupy movement is derived from the First Amendment, you'd hope they'd (a) understand it and (b) support it. Instead, you assert, they want to abolish it for those who might say things they disagree with.
That's not how it works. Constitutionally protected rights are protected for all.
Second, this is a Supreme Court First Amendment decision that came down on the side of the First Amendment. Unless you can get the Supreme Court to review the case and reverse its own decision, the only thing that can reverse it is a new amendment or Constitutional Convention.
Third, this is a Supreme Court First Amendment decision that came down on the side of the First Amendment. Free speech is the very bedrock of civil society, and any attempt to curtail it must be viewed with the greatest suspicion. We have made certain very specific provisions: False advertising, for example, and incitement to violence (which must be direct and explicit). What is the value in abridging the freedom of speech of groups of people in this way? And how does it weigh against the harm?
Fourth, this is a Supreme Court First Amendment decision that came down on the side of the First Amendment. What are the legal grounds for reversing such a decision? The First Amendment is very clear:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.McCain-Feingold was in clear violation of the First Amendment; those provisions were struck down.
The same amendment that guarantees the right of the Occupy protesters protects the speech of other non-profit groups like Citizens United. And this is what they want to dismantle?
What possible legal grounds could they have for such an act? And have they really considered the consequences?
Or are they seagulls - all entitlement and no responsibility?
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Tuesday, November 08 2011 08:05 AM (PiXy!)
74
seagulls are so evolutionary stupid that they will ingest botulina bacillus.
not do much the OWS.
they have power, and they are buying tents.
"And, because this is something you don't seem to understand: Muslims are people." LOLOLLLLOLLOLLLelevnty.
i am a muslim, pixie. i reverted while studying arabic.
"And, because this is something you don't seem to understand: Muslims are people." LOLOLLLLOLLOLLLelevnty.
i am a muslim, pixie. i reverted while studying arabic.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Tuesday, November 08 2011 12:18 PM (9dK/x)
75
seagulls are so evolutionary stupid that they will ingest botulina bacillus. not do much the OWS. they have power, and they are buying tents.I'm sure you think that's meaningful, even relevant, but it's not.
i am a muslim, pixie. i reverted while studying arabic.Yes, I know.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at Tuesday, November 08 2011 03:28 PM (PiXy!)
76
64what was the mission, wonderduck? lol
why did we stay there for 10 years and 4.4 trillion dollars?
Democracy promotion.
YOU were the one who suggested that the mission was to eliminate all the muslims from Iraq and Afghanistan, Matoko, not me. YOU were wrong.
YOU were the one who suggested that the mission was to eliminate all the muslims from Iraq and Afghanistan, Matoko, not me. YOU were wrong.
Posted by: Wonderduck at Tuesday, November 08 2011 03:36 PM (o45Mg)
77
i never said that, wonderduck.
i think the mission was democracy promotion, in the service of Peaceful Democracy Theory and the Bush Doctrine.
But i could be wrong.
I'm genuinely interested in what you think the mission was.
Posted by: matoko_chan at Wednesday, November 09 2011 10:58 PM (9dK/x)
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